Curse

Kabale · Nov 15, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Give reasons before making bold statements.

I wouldn't run Draw+Touch in GvG though, as it is easily spotted and can be exploited. But for RA + TA, possibly even HA, it's a decent combo.

Thomas.knbk · Nov 15, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by skillsbas8

Going away from monks, I was wondering about decapitate. It hasn't been discussed very much and I still have mixed opinions about it. What do you guys think of it?

I found a single executioner's strike/ decapitate/ (weapon swap) critical chop spike axe warrior can alost kill a target in one spike, so it's obviously very strong. Decapitate is nice because of the guaranteed dmg. Use burst of agression instead of Frenzy.

Drewfense · Nov 15, 2006, 04:39 PM // 16:39

I know it sounds funny...but "It's just a flesh wound" is an insanely good skill (I should probably just delete my GW guru account right now). Instant which is really good for removing deep wounds and such. 1 Sec recharge + shout (energy return) so it is uber spammable. The deep wound side effect is negligable (compared to draw you would often be getting a deep wound anyways). In direct comparison to Draw Conditions, I would even say it is imbalanced...but it is an elite draw conditions, so it will never be run...

/delete GW guru account and hide in shame

Divineshadows · Nov 15, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

I know it sounds funny...but "It's just a flesh wound" is an insanely good skill (I should probably just delete my GW guru account right now). Instant which is really good for removing deep wounds and such. 1 Sec recharge + shout (energy return) so it is uber spammable.

The only use I am currently seeing for this skill is in a caster or ranger spike where you want to bolster your defense and improve the energy management of either the casters or the rangers depending on which type of spike it is while still having a character that can contribute to the spike. These spikes typically have difficulty fitting deep wound into the spike and often resort to phantom/shatter, but the hex + aftercast gives the monks a window to see who the spike target is. A paragon could use It's just a flesh wound and then plauge send it to the spike target timing it with when the initial spike lands.

Zuranthium · Nov 15, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabale

My RA build atm is:

Prot spirit
Rof
Guardian
Draw Conditions
Mending Touch
Zealous Benediction
Holy Veil
Balanced Stance

You're one of those people. EVERY character in RA absolutely needs a rez sig.

Drewfense · Nov 15, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

It is hard for a monk to use a rez sig on himself. I don't think I have ever been in an RA match where the other team didn't just train the monk the whole time.

Divineshadows · Nov 15, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

You're one of those people. EVERY character in RA absolutely needs a rez sig.

There was a thread a while back about monks with rez sig in RA and TA with much debate. I do not know that either side won the argument. Where did that thread go?

Drewfense · Nov 15, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

If someone finds the thread post it...otherwise lets leave that debate for elsewhere =/

Zuranthium · Nov 15, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

It is hard for a monk to use a rez sig on himself. I don't think I have ever been in an RA match where the other team didn't just train the monk the whole time.

It's even harder to heal 4 separate people when the builds you're up against are all about huge bursts of damage the majority of the time. Bringing that one extra skill is usually not going to suddenly save you against huge damage across the entire party. Deaths will happen and rez sig is absolutely necessary. That rez automatically brings back 33% of your team's offense (assuming you're the only monk; if not the rez is equal to restoring 50% of your team's offense if something goes wrong).

It's obviously possible to do just fine with no rez sig but the number of times I've seen a team lose because their monk couldn't rez is really, really high.

falling demon · Nov 15, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

For RA, i bring:

Glyph of Lesser Energy (serves as both energy management and energy GAIN too)
Zealous Benediction (combine with GoLE ^^ for uber happiness

)
Prot Spirit (For those nasty high DPS peeps)
Holy Veil (its smite hex, with a 3 sec shorter recharge, and a secondary use if you keep it maintained, nuff said?)
Mending Touch (self removal, maybe replaced with Mend Ailment if i bring Extinguish)
Mend Condition (well, its RC with 1 condition, k? sometimes i swap for Extinguish)
RoF (do i NEED to explain?)
Guardian (see RoF)

For HA:

Glyph of Lesser Energy (THE best E-Management ever, 25 energy saved (30 if combined with ZB when an ally is <50% hp), 30 sec recharge, almost another 3 Pips of energy, and its non elite, so meh)
Zealous Benediction (If the team lets me.. i usually get flamed into using RC

)
Prot Spirit
Holy Veil
Extinguish (i always bring it when Protting in HA, totally owns SF)
Mending Touch (Again, self removal, sometimes replaced with Mend Ailment for curing others)
RoF
Guardian

the HA one lacks a bit of Condition Removal, but Extinguish is too good to pass up when combined with GoLE, and the abundance of SF teams.

Zuranthium · Nov 15, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

GoLE saves you 20 energy at best for your build. It takes 5 to use it and then you save 15 for Exinguish and 10 for either ZB or PS.

Still a great skill, though. I've thought about a Mo/E with GoLE and Kinetic Armor.

Byron · Nov 15, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

So what is the point of bringing RC? If there are not heavy condition stacks, RC is a waste of an elite.

Uhm, granted - but who's worried about a condition pressure one condition deep, anyway?

Quote:

but ZB would be better than RC in the current meta that is pressure and single conditions.

Agreed - it's good healing power and some measure of e-management. But, forgoing RC or divert might cause you to kick yourself in a later match.

Quote:

You really don't see stacked condtions much in GvGs.

YAA is prevalent, cripshot is still out there, blindness covered with enervating. NR/tranq doesn't get much paly anymore, but I don't think that means we dismiss RC. Of course it depends on the build - extinguish and draw make RC seem bad.

Kabale · Nov 15, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

You're one of those people. EVERY character in RA absolutely needs a rez sig.

meh :\ cry somewhere else about it.

On topic, YAA is a pain to deal with unless you have RC. It's deadly when you have to move, and drawing only moves the problem elsewhere.

Drewfense · Nov 15, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

YAA is prevalent, cripshot is still out there, blindness covered with enervating. NR/tranq doesn't get much paly anymore, but I don't think that means we dismiss RC. Of course it depends on the build - extinguish and draw make RC seem bad.

When are you going to need RC to remove YAA? If the monk is the main party, 9 times out of 10 YAA is going to fail. If the monk is on a small split, he has no way of removing YAA from himself and mending touch on heal sig warriors is becoming commonplace. Crip shots are not popular at the moment. Only one I have seen in the top 20 is for Cow. There is the occasional R/D crip shot now a days, but it really isn't that common. The most common conditions are caused by Searing Flames, Tainted, and Anthems, all of which pretty much make RC = condi. I am not saying RC is a bad elite, it obviously isn't since it sees play throughout the entire ladder. I am saying in the current meta, it isn't a good option.

Ensign · Nov 16, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

I have never lost a RA match because I didn't have a ressig as a Monk.

Peace,
-CxE

romO · Nov 16, 2006, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Saying that RC or Divert is a wasted elite versus a build that doesn't have condition stack or hex overload is the wrong mentality. Realistically, I suppose you could perhaps run an elite with no utility such as ZB or Glimmer to be efficient in builds that don't require a specialized elite, but most of the time, a RC or Divert bar is balanced enough so that it will do the job versus a balanced build without any severe lack of utility. You're going to have a condi removal, hex removal, anti-spike skill, etc, no matter what your elite is. The elite, then, will excel in situations where that specific utility is needed the most. If you are running a bar with RC or Divert, then not using your elite once in the entire game will not lose you the game against a balanced team, whereas when you are running an elite that lacks utility (ZB, etc), it may very well cause you to lose to an overload team. That's why I think very specific monk elites are generally the most secure when the rest of your bar is balanced. You're not losing anything in most situations, yet gaining a complete counter in few situations.

As for the number of conditions that RC removes, even in normal games without condition overload, it often triggers off of multiple conditions. I can't count the number of times that I've spammed mend condition on someone several times and still left them with a condition or the number of times that I hit the only member of my party with a condition with RC and removed three conditions. Even if it's only triggering off of one condition, it's still the same as mend condition, so you're not losing anything (see above).

Thom Bangalter · Nov 16, 2006, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Tommy equals pro. My only concern: not running blight makes it harder for monks to split as effectively, because b-light was generally pretty solid there.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 16, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Tommy equals pro. My only concern: not running blight makes it harder for monks to split as effectively, because b-light was generally pretty solid there.

Shield of absorption + prot spirit is pretty good for defending oneself. However, yes then you're only real self-heals are gonna be divine favor bonuses, RoF, and Sig of Devo.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 16, 2006, 12:58 AM // 00:58

I'd actually send back the spirit bond monk on a split, and if he has shield and spirit bond I suppose he'd be more than ok.

The Omniscient · Nov 16, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

I <3 Zealous benediction ^^